"That's what I said," Octavia replied, her eyebrows going up a little in recognition, or for emphasis, or both. (Maybe just glad they saw it the same way.) "And I get his point, kind of, but also I think I've done it pretty successfully at least once since then? When I wasn't sure if something was too much for him. I was -- I still had the reins, that didn't change, but I got him to tell me it was."